Adrenal Stress and Hypothyroid

[AbbyB]

Hi all,

I am struggling with what I think is adrenal exhaustion and hypothyroid, but my blood tests are coming out normal.

Has anyone had experience with saliva cortisol testing and/or natural thyroid and adrenal supplementation?

The whole area seems quite subtle and tricky, and I'm wondering if anyone can offer anecdotal experience with success/failure on treatment of these disorders either for themselves or clients.

I'm also thinking of doing my final NE project on this subject (adrenal-thyroid connection), so any sources of info would also be most welcome.

I've already read books by Mary Shomon, Richard Shames, and James Wilson. Any others that are good?

Thanks much!

[MiraD]

I don't know if my story with help but...

I have been diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue and was recently told that my thyroid antibodies put me in a category to be considered a Hashimoto's patient.  But the doctors did not want to treat my thyroid or my fatigue because they felt that the other thyroid numbers were what they would have wanted with treatment.  And they didn't want to treat the fatigue because they didn't know what they could do.  They did prescribe mega-doses of vitamin D for a short time and that corrected a deficiency that I didn't know I had but that was about it.

Since starting this course (I'm up to NE104) I have made huge steps forward by adding seaweeds and other booster foods and by being careful about goitrogenic foods.  I also started eating smaller more frequent meals and upgraded my B vitamins, probiotics and flax to a higher grade of supplement.  Although I still get tired it is not as often nor as debilitating as it was in the past.

I hope you manage to find some answers for yourself and your own health.  Please feel free to email me privately if you want to discuss this more.  My email is miradessy@email.com.

[jodi f.]

Hi Abby,

You've already done some good reading. I'm an NC student, with Hashimoto's, so this interests me, too. I personally haven't done the saliva adrenal test, but that's because I have an excellent acupuncturist who has diagnosed me with mild adrenal fatigue and is treating me. Adrenal fatigue is almost always a factor with low thyroid. I've had the saliva adrenal test done on several clients, and it's very informative and really helps guide me in my recommendations for them. The lab can help you interpret them.

Your reading should have already explained your normal blood tests. Diagnos-Techs offers a saliva test for thyroid that they, and the Shames', feel is slightly more accurate than serum. With the serum tests though, it's not that they're not accurate, it's that the reference ranges are out of whack. There are now those who feel that a TSH above 1.9 bodes ill for thyroid function, and a review article in the British Medical Journal (1997, I believe) found that people with a TSH of 2, with antibodies, were likely to go on to develop sympoms. So, you must get those antibodies tested.

I wrote a paper on Hashimoto's that you can find in the "Articles" section on our college website. There are lots of references you might find useful for your own paper. There's also lots of nutrition information. I also recommend www.realthyroidhelp.com. This is a forum of extremely knowledgeable people, and the topic of adrenal/thyroid may be the biggest one. If you haven't read Broda Barnes, that's a must. And check out Ray Peat's articles at www.raypeat.com.

Good luck, and feel free to email me with any questions,
Jodi

[AbbyB]

Thanks so much, Mira and Jodi! 

I will definitely look into the treatments and readings you suggested. And thanks for offering to discuss this further offline!

Best,
Abby

[CatharinaL]

Hi Abby,

I have also been diagnosed with adrenal fatigue and borderline hypothyroid. My whole digestive system has also been sluggish and my hair is thinner. It probably has a lot to do with stress.

I have also started to go and have acupuncture treatment. They claimed that my liver and spleen had not been working well and that my Yan was weak. I was also given a supplement for my slow digestion, called Stomach Tabs by Health Concerns. My viatmin D levels are on the low side as well so I am supplementing there also. There is also a supplement for adrenal fatigue by Pure Encapsulations called Phyto-ADR. Not that I want to use too many supplements but if it helps to balance things, then I am wiling to do it for a short period of time!

 It is all very annoying as I make every effort to eat healthily and to drink water and herbal teas. I will let you know how I progress. I am not keen on taking hormones for the rest of life. Today I am receiving some fresh dulse from Canada. I have also started to include canned sardines in my diet.

Let me know if you have any other suggestions!

Nina LePage (Catharina is my full name but I go by the shorter name!)

This is also a subject that I am considering for my final!   

[SarahG]

Hi Abby and others,

I am a NE student (Berkeley) and I, too, have been diagnosed with low thyroid/adrenals. Perhaps my experience can be of some benefit to you, and I would be happy to talk to you about it personally, but here is an overview which might give you some more things to explore in your own search.

Last summer I collapsed suddenly after a long decline in energy, memory, and functioning which I had not been able to find the reason for despite trying for years and receiving only what turned out to be harmful prescriptions from doctors, which I weaned myself off of as soon as possible.  My blood pressure was extremely low, my temperature was very low, I was pale, had lost weight and my muscles had atrophied, I was extremely weak, had heart palpitations, couldn't digest my food, my hair was falling out by handfuls, I was aging rapidly, and I couldn't think or function. I know now how dangerous my condition really was, and I did feel like I was dying. I went to a Naturopathic doctor who ordered a number of tests. The results of these tests opened my eyes and helped me understand what was happening to me and also guided me in my ongoing efforts to recover. I would recommend them to anyone who suspects or knows they have adrenal exhaustion or fatigue, if they can afford them.

A few of the tests that were especially helpful for me were the NeuroScience DHEA and Cortisol saliva tests (both were very low which showed hypoadrenia) and neurotransmitter urine testing (very low serotonin and epinephrine (adrenaline) and high norepinephrine showed that I was not methylating properly which means high homocysteine and need for the methyl donors folate, B12, B6 and other B vitamins; SAM-E, DMAE, TMG and/or DMG were also recommended or prescribed). Also helpful were a number of tests that showed my blood profile and that the T4 thyroid hormone was not being converted to the active T3 (a different test than most doctors order).  On my own I ordered a blood test which showed low zinc, however I plan to do a hair mineral analysis which will be more complete. I also ordered a gluten/casein sensitivity test through EnteroLab which showed I had high sensitivity to both. Since I didn't know anyone else that was gluten sensitive, I don't think I would have been able to completely eliminate both wheat gluten and dairy at that time without the test results. I am convinced these food sensitivities played a major role over my lifetime in depleting nutrients (malabsorption) and exhausting my adrenals, as well as contributing to depression and mental 'fog'.

My doctor gave me sublingual DHEA, and cortisol (which I stopped taking because of the risks), some special amino acid, B vitamin and mineral formulas to help me methylate and help my adrenals and thyroid function, as well as an adrenal tea with adaptogens. Licorice tea was also recommended for low blood pressure. She also gave me HCl and high potency enzymes and probiotics. They helped so much! Also something to help heal my digestive tract lining (white fish extract--now I use L-Glutamine which is less expensive). I began a slow recovery. I have found that the effectiveness of these kinds of supplements depends a lot on the timing and what you take them with.

Some challenges and setbacks along the way: a serious systemic candida infection flares up when I eat sugar and I have major hypoglycemia (closely linked to adrenal fatigue). Very acid pH which has only slowly improved somewhat. Digestive problems with sweets or starches or if I skip HCl with protein or enzymes with meals, and of course extreme reaction to gluten, and casein makes me fall asleep, though I can tolerate butter now, so it is improving. I often wondered, what can I eat? I had to stop my supplements many times to find offending gluten hidden in a new purchase! Each time I went off supplements, I couldn't function. Still, something was bothering me, and I finally discovered it was a yeast sensitivity. I cut out the multivitamin and B vitamins which contained yeast and went into another decline. Recently I found a non-allergenic B vitamin complex and take it with extra niacin (B3) and pantothenic acid (B5), which is crucial for restoring adrenals, along with my extra B6 and zinc. The difference is amazing. I am recovering much more rapidly now.

Other things that have helped me greatly: cod liver oil (supplies vitamin D in winter) or fish oil (summer) for adrenals and depression (benefits brain), arthritis symptoms and joint aches have gone away. Iodine in seaweed and natural progesterone cream brought my temperature up to just about normal (see Dr. Wilson's temperature syndrome www.wilsonssyndrome.com for more information and how to determine if your underlying problem is the thyroid or the adrenals). Exercise helps oxygenate the brain and stronger muscles help regulate blood sugar. I try to push myself just to the point where I am breathing deeply with some sweating, but not over that, and not for too long. Lots of rest (this is hardest), in fact a short nap or lying down to rest during the day for short periods really helps adrenals heal, and to bed before 11 PM (adrenals restore from 11PM to 1AM). A good green powder and minerals, especially magnesium (relaxes). Baths with epsom salts (magnesium) and baking soda. Warm water with sea salt upon rising makes me feel so much better. For adrenals, buffered natural vitamin C (with bioflavenoids) and lemon juice (prepares stomach for digestion when taken in the morning). Amino acids for focus, mood and energy (read Julia Ross's The Mood Cure or The Diet Cure or Joan Matthews Larson's Depression Free Naturally). Sunshine! Sunlight! High quality whole food diet, with plenty of healthy fats, Omega-3s including fresh ground flax seed, enough protein (may have higher than normal requirements while healing). The Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT) (www.emofree.com), which I think of as a an effective and more active form of acupressure, helps me and my daughter relax more quickly after an alarm or if in pain and resolves intense emotions. I no longer add an emotional burden to my adrenals.

There are many other supplements and booster foods which I have tried or still take (though I take much less now than in the beginning and hope to soon take even less), but everyone must find what their body needs, and there are risks with some of them if you don't need them, especially hormones which should be tested for and monitored. I periodically take natural adrenal extract and pregnenolone, and I assume they help but I can't say for sure.  I certainly don't plan to use hormones long-term, though I may continue to use the progesterone cream (from wild yams) as I feel its good effects so strongly. To summarize, for the adrenals I focus on the B vitamins (B5 has helped especially), vitamin C (vital), increasing mineral reserves, vegetables, good fats and proteins.  And, to be honest, I try lots of different things and see if they seem to help. I think of myself as an experiment, so that I can someday benefit others with what my own body is teaching me right now since the condition I am in has made me so sensitive. Although I expect my recovery to take a year or two more, it feels so good to function again, to feel hopeful and positive, and to know how to get back on track when I am thrown off course. I hope something here proves helpful to you or speeds up your own research.

Take care,

Sarah Guerra Orantes

[KristinC]

Sarah,

Thanks so much for sharing your story and your journey towards healing.  A lot of your health issues sound very similar to mine. Since I also have several food sensitivities(gluten/casein), may I ask you which brands of the B vitamins you found that were non-allergenic? 

I hadn't even thought about this as being a contributor to the problem!  If you know of non-allergenic brands, I would love to explore them.

Thanks!

[AbbyB]

Yes, Sarah - thank you SO much for sharing your experiences.

I, too, have been treating myself like a guinea pig. Some things help, some don't, and some things make me feel very strange.

You've covered just about everything that I am trying or want to try - and more!

I'm going to be doing the saliva test, another type of thyroid test (I believe it's the one that tests whether you convert the T3 to T4) and a glucose tolerance test.

I have extreme reactions to sugar - nearly passing out, loss of memory, etc. I don't have a sensitivity to gluten, but I have shown a sensitivity (through a skin-prick test) to baker's yeast. I'm not sure what would happen if I try nutritional yeast, since I'm not allergy to brewer's yeast.

I've been seeing an alternative medicine doctor as well as a regular allopathic doctor, and both of them seem to suspect some sort of adrenal issue.

The hardest thing for me to do is give up caffeine. I can barely function if I don't have it You're right - the hardest thing is to rest, get sunshine, and enough exercise. When I exercise too much, I get exhausted!

Anyway, you've given me a huge amount of information and much that confirms my own experience.

Thanks again! I will definitely keep in touch offline.
Abby

[AbbyB]

I meant T4 to T3!

[CatharinaL]

Although I am eating very well these days. I am still very tired. I have almost stopped drinking coffee. Just have maybe one or two cups per week. The nettle tea and camomile tea are good but do not energize me. Do you have any suggestions?

[jodi f.]

Hi Everyone,

I read all of the entries here this morning, and something about them has been nagging at me all day. This is what it is:

Almost all of the reading I've done, and it's a considerable amount--books, articles, research studies--has stressed autoantibody testing, something very few doctors seem to do. Very low levels of these may be OK to let alone, but if antibodies put you in the Hashimoto's category, it is highly recommended to supplement with either natural dessicated thyroid (Armour, Nature-Throid, West-Throid) or T4 and T3 (Mira, even if your other tests are normal). The reasons for this are that the antibodies are destroying the gland, and in order to make a recovery from Hashimoto's, it's necessary to give the thyroid gland a break. In other words, you supply it with all the hormone your body needs so the gland doesn't have any work to do and can rest and repair itself. According to my doctor, about 30% of the people he sees are able to eliminate their autoantibodies. He says it takes on average a year and a half. And of course, along with the supplemental hormone, you eat to support the thyroid and reduce the autoimmunity: small, restricted calorie meals, foods containing the vital thyroid minerals (esp. selenium, zinc and magnesium), adequate protein, etc. (Selenium, BTW, has been shown to reduce autoantibodies, but I haven't heard of anyone curing themselves of Hashi's with it----yet).

I think what bothered me this morning is how much effort some of you are putting into finding natural remedies, which is great, don't get me wrong.  These are all things that need to be done. (In fact, Sarah, your program is really impressive.) But for some people, avoiding the use of the hormones can be detrimental to health. Whatever it was in the environment, in our diets, in our stress responses that has caused our adrenals and thyroids to malfunction obviously has to be dealt with, but by the time the glands start to fail, food and supplements aren't always going to be enough. And when there are thyroid autoantibodies involved, it's important to stop the damage. Long term low thyroid is dangerous. It slows down every metabolic process in the body. It raises cholesterol and blood pressure, and it can result in cardiovascular disease. If you've got Hashimoto's, don't mess around.

[SarahG]

Jodi, thanks for pointing out that in certain cases, especially Hashimoto's, hormone replacement can be crucial to recovery, and many people have been greatly helped by using them (myself included). I think it would be worthwhile to research natural versus synthetic before taking them.

In belated response to Kes' request for the brand of hypo-allergenic B vitamins (I was out of town for two weeks), I found that TwinLab has a yeast-free Stress B-Complex, and Pantothenic Acid (B-5) sold at Whole Foods.  I am sure there are others also, but these were the first I found and they are working well for me.

And Catherina, some things I have tried that have helped my energy when I am feeling really tired are: eating a protein-rich breakfast (within an hour of rising and eating something before exercising) and lunch; a good quality green food powder in water or smoothie; taking a power nap for 10-20 minutes sometimes helps, or a brisk walk outdoors to oxygenate the brain; B vitamins with breakfast or lunch--besides a B-complex I find that sublingual B-12 helps me if I start to feel fatigued (I like DEVA's sublingual vegan B12 with folic acid and B6); green tea on occasion when I really need a boost as it has a more calming effect than coffee and less caffeine; ginkgo biloba increases circulation in the body and brain and makes me feel more alert; adaptogens are often recommended for fatigue but seem to work more gradually; I carry the amino acid tyrosine in my purse to take (between meals) if I experience poor concentration and fatigue during the day (in Julia Ross' book The Mood Cure, to replace the craving for stimulants like coffee and sugar she suggests starting with one capsule first thing in the morning and a second capsule in 30 minutes if you don't feel anything, then a third if you still don't, and also increasing omega-3 fish oil intake by at least one capsule with each meal, and maybe adding SAM-e; she says if tyrosine doesn't help it may be because of low thyroid); I also really like Genesa's Total Amino Solution which I found at Whole Foods and is recommended by Julia Ross. All these are best taken earlier in the day. Maybe you'll find something useful here to increase your energy--I wish you the best!

[CatharinaL]

I really appreciate your great advice and will let you know how it goes!

Catharina (Nina)

[TrishT]

Hi Abby,

Here's an article about adrenal/thyroid issues written by a very knowledgeable woman who has helped a lot of people with Candida overgrowth--sometimes the three issues are related.  Hope this helps!

http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/treat19.php

Trish

[AbbyB]

Very interesting, Trish - thank you! It seems like many things are related to adrenal problems -